Ordinance Committee — October 26, 2026
0:26 Testing, 1, 2, 3.0:29 Oh wow, look at God.0:31 Well, also known as Jennifer Carlani, but yeah.0:35 Is that good, Gus?0:39 How's that sound?0:41 And a 1, 2, 3, 4.0:44 Say that again.0:46 Oh, I know they couldn't pay for that.0:52 He hasn't told me I could start yet.0:54 He just asked for a sound check, and then he's gonna say you can start.1:20 Good.1:21 Okay.1:21 All right.1:24 Good evening.1:24 It is 7:01 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2026, and this is the Committee on Ordinances.1:35 Note this meeting is being live streamed and recorded.1:37 City Council and committee meetings can be viewed on the City of New Bedford's homepage under Quick Links.1:42 Then meetings.1:44 I'll ask the clerk if there are any letters to be read into the record.1:48 There are.1:48 I have 2 letters to read into the record.1:49 This one's from Councilor Choquette.1:51 I am writing to inform you that regretfully I will be unable to attend the Committee on Ordinances meeting on Monday, October 26th, 2026, due to a prior business commitment.2:00 Please read this letter into the record to make my colleagues and the public aware of the reason for my absence.2:05 And this one is from Councilor Gomes.2:08 I'm writing to inform you that regretfully I will be unable to attend the Committee on Ordinances meeting on Monday, October 26, 2026, due to an unexpected personal commitment.2:17 Please read this letter into the record to make my colleagues and the public aware of the reason for my absence.2:21 Motion received and placed both communications on file.2:24 Motion received and placed on file, made by Councilor Oliver, seconded by Councilor Abreu.2:27 Anyone on the question?2:29 Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.2:32 Any opposed?2:33 The ayes have it.2:34 I'm joined tonight in chambers by my colleagues in government, Ward 5 Councilor Joseph Lopes, Ward 6 Councilor, Council President Ryan Pereira, Councilor at Large James Roy, Councilor at Large and Second Vice President Naomi R.A. Carney, Councilor of Ward 3 Sean Oliver, Councilor at Large Ian Abreu, and Ward 2 Councilor Scott Pemberton.2:58 Um, I'll ask the clerk to read item 1.3:02 N1A.3:02 N1A, sure, that goes with 1.3:05 Item number 1 is a public hearing on a written motion.3:08 Councilor Lopes requesting that the Committee on Ordinances and the Planning Board rezone plot 39, lot 2230 Brigham Street, from split zoning of residential B, RB, and mixed-use business MUB to mixed-use business MUB for the entire parcel, to be referred to the Committee on Ordinances and the Planning Board.3:26 It was referred here on August 25th, 2026.3:28 It was duly advertised in the Standard Times on October 9th, 2026, and then again on October 19th, 2026.3:35 1A is a communication from Jennifer Carloni, Director of the Planning Department, to Councilor Shane A. Burgo, Chairman on the Committee of Ordinances, advising that the Planning Board held a public hearing on Wednesday, October 7th, 2026, to discuss a request made by the City Council for the Planning Board to review and make a recommendation relative to the rezoning of Parcel 39-22 at 30 Brigham Street from a split zoning of residential BRB and mixed-use business MUB to entirely mixed-use business.4:03 The planning board voted to send a favorable recommendation for the rezone request, and that was received on October 14th, 2026.4:10 Motion to place on file and open the public hearing.4:14 Motion received and placed on file and open the public hearing, made by Councilor Lopes, seconded by Councilor Pemberton.4:19 Anyone on the question of opening the public hearing?4:21 Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.4:24 Any opposed?4:25 The ayes have it.4:27 Mr. Chairman, do we have to receive and place on file the communications?4:31 Um, from the planning board recommendations, I think that's just— well, I believe that's what we did in that vote, was receiving place on file 1 and 1A and opening the public hearing.4:41 That's my interpretation of what we just took a vote on.4:44 Um, can we hear from Jen Carlani, please?4:47 Thank you.4:47 Director Carlani, please.4:57 Good evening, Chair.4:57 Good evening, uh, City Council members.5:00 Jen Carloni, City Planner, Warden Bedford.5:04 This evening, the request was for the rezoning of this parcel on Brigham Street from split zoning, meaning it was half one zone, half another, Residential B to Mixed Use Business.5:16 The planning board sends a favorable recommendation for this proposal this evening.5:21 If there's any questions I don't have— I don't have any questions, Jen.5:24 I appreciate the work that you and the entire staff did.5:26 I know the property owner is behind us, and I appreciate the favorable recommendation that the planning board assigned to it.5:32 Thank you.5:33 Thank you, Council Chair.5:35 Chair recognizes Councilor Pereira-Hannes first.5:37 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.5:38 Jen, in the, um, public hearings in the planning— on the planning board, were there any public comment?5:48 Uh, no, there wasn't.5:50 Okay, thank you.5:51 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.5:54 Anyone else for Director Carlani?5:59 Okay, this is a public hearing.6:03 I'll ask if anyone here wishes to speak in favor.6:06 Speak in favor.6:09 Oh, gentleman here.6:11 Okay, I'll have you come to the microphone and just state your name and address for the record.6:17 My name is Ashton Albanaz.6:18 I own property on 30 Brigham Street.6:21 So when I bought the property 3 years ago, I thought it was— I didn't realize it was zoned 15, 25 feet short of the building.6:29 So it had 2 property— 2 commercial businesses inside.6:35 The previous owner was Hawes Electric.6:37 He had the electric business in the back.6:40 That's the part of the building that is not fully zoned.6:43 He had it there for many, many years.6:45 I don't know, decades.6:46 I'm not too sure, to be honest with you.6:48 But when I went to go put a new tenant in that back lot, that back section, building department told me because it wasn't fully zoned, I couldn't put a tenant back there at all.7:00 So I've had that building half empty for the last, like, 6 months.7:05 I kind of would like to have it fully usable.7:09 It'll help a lot.7:11 That's it.7:12 Thank you, Mr. Albornoz.7:14 Anyone else here wish to speak in favor?7:16 Speak in favor.7:18 Be recorded in favor.7:20 Be recorded in favor.7:23 Anyone wish to speak in opposition?7:25 Speak in opposition.7:28 Be recorded in opposition.7:31 Be recorded in opposition.7:34 Make a motion to close the public hearing.7:36 Motion to close the public hearing made by Councilor Lopes, seconded by Councilor Abreu.7:38 Anyone on the question of closing the public hearing?7:43 Seeing none, all those in favor of closing the public hearing say aye.7:47 Any opposed?7:48 The ayes have it.7:49 Make a motion that we follow the recommendation of the planning board and grant the favorable recommendation for the rezoning of the property located at parcel 39-22, 30 Brigham Street, from split zone residential B to mixed-use business to entirely mixed-use business.8:05 Motion made by Councilor Lopes, seconded by Councilor Abreu.8:08 Anyone on the question?8:11 Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.8:16 Any opposed?8:18 The ayes have it.8:18 That will be reported out on the November 12th council agenda.8:23 I'll ask the clerk to read items 2 to A to B.8:29 Item number 2 is a public hearing on a communication, Mayor Mitchell, to the city council submitting an ordinance amending Chapter 9 relative to the definition and the use Classification of Data Centers.8:38 It was referred here on September 10th, 2026, to be advertised in the Standard Times on October 9th, 2026, and then again on October 19th, 2026.8:47 2A is the ordinance which was referred on September 10th, 2026.8:51 2B is a communication from Jennifer Carloni, Director, Planning Department, to Councillor Shane A. Burgo, Chairman of the Committee on Ordinances, advising that the planning board held a public meeting on Wednesday, October 7th, 2026, to review the proposed amendment of Chapter 9, Comprehensive Zoning, Section 1200, Definitions, and Appendix A, Table of Principal Use Regulations, to prohibit data centers in all zoning districts.9:15 The planning board voted to send a favorable recommendation for the ordinance amendment.9:20 It was received here on October 14th, 2026.9:23 2, 2A, and 2B are now before you.9:29 Motion received and placed on file, 2, 2A, 2B, which includes the ordinance and communication, and open the public hearing made by Councilor Abru, seconded by Councilor Oliver.9:39 Anyone on the question?9:41 Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.9:44 Any opposed?9:45 The ayes have it.9:47 Uh, Councilor Abru.9:48 Thank you, sir.9:48 Uh, could Director Carloni please take the podium?9:51 Director Carloni.9:56 Good evening, Jen.9:57 Um, so I read obviously the ordinance and the recommendation from the board, and I think it's well placed and well put.10:09 I know you and I had a conversation a little bit prior about some of this, and I have— and I'm as economic development driven as they come, I think, as you and many others know.10:19 But I obviously have some very serious concerns about data centers and what they're doing to neighborhoods and communities, especially communities analogous to New Bedford.10:28 I'm sure you've been up on this and been reading about what's going on in Lowell.10:34 With the former Prince Pasta Factory, and that it got converted to a data center right in the middle, smack dab of a residential neighborhood.10:44 The community has come out, and there's been a big problem with that.10:47 And I'm sure some of that information that you've seen, you've heard, you've watched, you've observed, sort of weighed in the decision-making of the board and your department through the recommendations.10:59 So talk a little bit about what's going on there and how we could, if we're not careful, see ourselves in a similar situation here in New Bedford.11:07 Sure.11:07 So before you use a prohibition for data centers, currently in the ordinance they are allowed because before, you know, data centers were servers housing data.11:18 But now with the rise of AI, they're much different.11:21 We're seeing a rise of these across the country, and Lowell is the most local one that you've seen that really has had some externalities that you wouldn't expect that really have impacted a neighborhood.11:32 So there's noise concerns with fans running to cool these, these equipment.11:37 Water— they need a lot of water that runs through pipes and systems in there, again, through these systems to keep them cool, because they're, they're just like your computers, right?11:45 Your computers run hot.11:47 These things are big giant computer servers, and they're running hot because they're processing a lot of data.11:54 So the heat The ability to keep them cool is causing these problems, that contamination, environmental— they're major sources of use.12:03 So they use a lot of electricity, a lot of water, and then they have problems with noise for neighborhoods.12:09 And they're just really giant.12:10 And in places like Gateway Cities, we're concerned because it's very similar to Lowell.12:15 We have a lot of industrial areas that historically were built up, housing built up around them.12:19 And so we're looking at locations We need to really look at how we regulate these, what size and scale of these are appropriate for New Bedford, and where they can be located.12:32 And so we're trying to say we need to pause and let's put a ban on them for the moment.12:36 No, I appreciate that.12:37 And, and I know this is meant to give you and your team time to assess appropriate regulations for these type of places.12:43 I just, you know, and we, we've kind of seen this with cannabis in a way.12:47 It's like the way that was zoned in industrial.12:50 A, B, and C. It's kind of like, where do you find these?12:52 I'm not even sure where we could find a spot in the city, right?12:55 There's— we're 13 by 3, and we don't have that— those many, uh, that many, uh, open parcels of developable land other than what, maybe, uh, you know, Hathaway Road?13:06 I mean, the AMC campus?13:08 I don't know.13:08 I mean, because the ward council is looking at— I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud.13:11 I don't even know where you'd put something like this without there not being some neighborhood concerns or impact.13:17 Um, but well, nonetheless, I appreciate, um, you and your team and the board to at least push the pause on this.13:25 Let's take a look.13:26 Let's see what we can do.13:27 Um, I'm not against growing our tax base.13:30 None of us are.13:30 We're not against— we're not anti-job.13:32 We want to create as many jobs here in New Bedford as we can, but it's got to be done with the right regulations and in the appropriate manner.13:40 So Um, is there anything else you'd like to add to that before I yield, or— I don't think there's anything.13:46 No.13:47 Okay, well, thank you, Madam.13:48 Appreciate your, your hard work.13:50 Mr. Chairman, I'll yield.13:51 Thank you.13:51 Thank you.13:52 The chair recognizes Councilor Pereira on this first.13:54 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.13:55 Jen, so I agree with the ordinance, um, before us too, in the sense of putting an outright ban at this time until we are available to possibly develop some sort of proper zoning to allow these in, in appropriate areas.14:14 Because of the potential tax revenue, I think it is worth exploring if there is even— you know, we are a densely populated city, we don't have much real estate left— if there is even an area, or do we just keep the ban?14:27 Your office is very busy.14:29 We've been— you guys have been developing tons of new zoning to help facilitate new growth in the city.14:36 What do you think?14:36 What Is there an expectation as to when we might see some further research into data centers, when this body might review?14:45 Are we talking a year?14:46 Are we talking 3 to 5 years until we see something?14:49 Oh, no, I think within the year.14:50 Like, right, we've been monitoring the situation in the state.14:53 In the state, I mean, as you see, a lot of other communities are also putting in bans.14:57 And really, we're just trying to make sure we can understand, you know, because originally we did look at saying, like, how do we regulate these?15:03 Right.15:03 And looking at them, What is the scale?15:05 How do we regulate?15:06 What regulations are the things that we, we can put into our local ordinance versus what we can't?15:11 There's a lot of legal questions out there right now.15:13 We've had some conversations with council outside the city on this because it's a specialized topic and it's, it's, it's evolving, right?15:21 And so we're kind of watching what the regulations are in the state, what's going on in other, other states as well as Massachusetts to see what makes sense.15:31 There's also changes supposedly happening in with the data centers, you know, instead of— there's a closed loop.15:38 You know, exactly, I'm not an engineer, so I'm not going to pretend I understand all of it.15:42 But from the water use, there's changes that they're making to make it less of a problem for communities.15:49 And I think we'll see that as more communities start to push back, that the industry itself will hopefully be a friendlier neighbor.15:55 But again, we to make sure that we understand all of that and what that is and the regulations that we want to put in place to protect our neighbors.16:01 Yeah, I definitely think it's not a bad idea to, to put in safeguards right now to prevent these from, from popping up without having proper zoning and understandings in place.16:12 I guess, you know, it's that balance of between the fiscal— out the, the good fiscal outlook that we could have by having a, a large property taxpayer in the city, like a data center, compared to the quality of life issues that would affect our residents, right?16:27 So those things have to be balanced out.16:30 So, but I guess my question also goes to, is there money in the budget to look at— I mean, I would imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would imagine you would need some sort of consulting help.16:43 I mean, it depends on what we're going to look at.16:45 Okay.16:45 Yeah, because it depends.16:47 Kind of the answer on that.16:48 Fair enough.16:49 Um, we do have some legal consultant that we can rely on as we develop stuff, so I'm not as concerned about that.16:55 Okay, I just want to make sure that— yeah, I think, I think the other thing too is I want to know is that we need to also look at, um, our utilities, right?17:03 Like, I think Taunton just had one last week or the week before, and it's 25 megawatts.17:07 That's a lot.17:08 That's not another— like, that's much, much larger than our industrial users now, right?17:11 So if it's that level of megawatts.17:13 If it's— I mean, I don't think we get that big because that was a big site.17:17 But if it is something like that, that's the kind of thing we need to figure out.17:20 Do we have that capacity?17:21 Do we have water to the level that they need it?17:25 And how would that affect an area that's around it?17:27 I know they said like the AMC, we know that there's issues with getting water up a hill, right?17:31 So, so that's probably not a great site at the moment.17:35 So that's the type of things that we need to talk about.17:37 Pretty full.17:38 Like, I'm just thinking like if Because even if there is like coming back to us in a year's time or 6 months' time and saying, hey, we look at this, we don't think there's any suitable sites in New Bedford, this would be an open area with no neighbors, but again, we can't get water up into the AMC, the industrial park is really at maximum capacity, and they don't have— like, there might not be an area, then why even bother wasting our time?18:02 So I think that's something you should look at as well.18:05 Yeah, I think the other thing that we're looking at is that know that it's on the radar, right?18:08 So that we have a couple ordinances from other communities that we've seen.18:12 We think that's going to probably come out more with the state in the next year as well.18:15 So we'll probably have some models.18:17 And then moving, moving on this, uh, you are a good partner with this body, but as this develops and moves further, I definitely feel it is important for this body to be involved in some of that process when appropriate, especially maybe even when we have some sort of draft ordinance, uh, plan that the— this body be involved in looking at that before planning board even gets, uh, that copy, or, or in conjunction with planning board seeing a draft, etc., so that maybe big concerns can be kind of ironed or, or straightened out prior.18:49 Absolutely.18:49 We can have— we can have a meeting here, a public meeting.18:53 Yeah, anything's— anything— you guys— anything's on the table.18:57 It fits the community, whatever we propose.18:59 Yeah, exactly.19:00 Exactly.19:00 Okay.19:01 Thank you, Director Carloni.19:02 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.19:05 Thank you.19:05 The chair recognizes Councilor Lopes on his first.19:08 Thank you, Council Chair.19:09 So, Jen, my only thing that I would add is I don't know if everybody knows that Verizon already has a switch center in downtown New Bedford.19:18 That is an ideal property to be retrofitted from switching because you no longer need all of that space.19:26 To a small micro data center.19:30 So I would hope that when the planning board is doing all the due diligence, they look at the potential for retrofitting of a facility that could easily be converted from its current use, which is a high energy use, to an even higher energy use.19:46 So that's my only concern is I don't know if most people in the city know that Verizon does and has a switch center.19:52 And that's why our original ordinance had it allowed in mixed-use business and industrial, because we did know that we had an existing data center in the, in the downtown, um, when we originally were doing these before the advent of AI.20:06 So that's the only thing I hope that we would consider, that as well as the ordinance.20:09 That's, that's my only thing.20:11 So thank you.20:12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.20:13 Thank you.20:14 Anyone else for Director Carlani?20:19 Okay, this is a public hearing.20:21 Does anyone here wish to speak in favor?20:32 Just your name and address for the record.20:36 Warren Samuels, 235 Portland Street.20:40 Uh, good evening everyone.20:41 Uh, I'm generally in favor of the prohibition, uh, on data centers.20:45 I did try to backtest or pressure test the, uh, ordinance as or the communication ordinance as communicated.20:53 And I found 2 potential conflicts, one within our own city code, uh, that's, uh, the Hicks Logan area, uh, Ward 3, by, uh, the— by, uh, I— why— I— wow— I-195.21:08 Uh, Section 460 makes the table— Chapter 9, Section 4660, uh, makes the use table for Hicks Logan supersede any city ordinance.21:22 But I think Section 2220 also calls into question the most— or promotes the most restrictive use, and I'm unsure how that interaction works, or if the ordinance can be amended to strictly, or to explicitly, prevent Hicks Logan from developing a data center before due diligence is done.21:47 An example of use there would be the— a commercial AI training laboratory for hardware— for computer hardware tests— computer hardware testing seeking approval under the research use, even if it also qualifies as a data center.22:04 So trying to reconcile those 2 issues.22:06 And then the second The second and probably more prominent conflict I'm finding is with Mass General Law Chapter 40, Section 6, that protects the use of— protects the previous use of land after the fact, or after the change is made in town.22:24 I've identified at least 2 properties that have approval-not-required endorsements.22:32 That's 126 Duchesne Boulevard as well as 507 and 507-513 Church Street.22:41 Those both— the approvals were both, both reported in March 2025, and I don't believe that they expire until 2028.22:49 So theoretically, data center could be— could happen there, and we couldn't do anything about it because we can't negate Mass General law.23:01 Aside from that, I'm not against tax revenue for the city.23:07 I hope that we're weighing the actual tax— the actual tax revenue minus incentives minus exemptions versus the potential other uses— residential, mixed-use condominiums— and also the language used in the communication from the mayor's office, primary use versus accessory use.23:29 High-performing versus high-performing technology versus, uh, is what is in the communication versus ordinary performing.23:37 If we're saying today's high-performing is tomorrow's ordinary, I feel there's room to skirt.23:42 And then commercial use of the technology.23:45 Other than that, I am for the ordinance.23:49 Thank you, Mr. Samuels.23:52 Anyone else here wish to speak in favor?23:57 Anyone else to speak in favor?24:00 Be recorded in favor.24:02 Be recorded in favor.24:05 Anyone here wish to speak in opposition?24:09 Speak in opposition.24:11 Be recorded in opposition.24:14 Be recorded in opposition.24:17 All right, seeing none.24:20 Motion to close the public hearing made by Councilor Abreu, seconded by Councilor Pemberton.24:29 Anyone on the question of closing the public hearing?24:32 Seeing none, all those in favor of closing the public hearing say aye.24:36 Any opposed?24:37 The ayes have it.24:39 Motion to refer to the full City Council with a favorable recommendation.24:43 Motion to refer out to the full City Council with a favorable recommendation made by Councillor Pereira, seconded by Councillor Abreu.24:49 Anyone on the question?24:52 Chair recognizes Councillor Pereira.24:54 Thank you.24:54 I know the attorneys were taking notes.24:57 I saw them scribbling down.24:58 If we could just have verification— doesn't have to be anything formal, Solicitor Jakes— but from what was stated in the, uh, prior to the city council meeting, from what was stated during, during the public hearing, if that would be okay.25:10 Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman.25:12 Anyone else on there first?25:16 Seeing none, all those in favor— oh, it's, it's working.25:23 I just double-checked.25:24 Tell them to refresh their browser.25:27 All those in favor say aye.25:29 Aye.25:29 Any opposed?25:30 The ayes have it.25:32 I'll ask the clerk, without objection, to read items 4 and 5.25:37 As they relate to each other.25:38 Oh, excuse me, we're on 3, right?25:40 Yeah, never mind.25:41 Item 3.25:41 I'll ask the clerk to read item 3.25:44 Item number 3 is a written motion, Councilmember Berger, requesting that the Committee on Ordinances consider the attached draft of a potential home rule petition to modernize the process regarding our legal notices, as well as review Section 1-5, or 1 through 5, of the city code to examine what changes would need to be made was referred here on October 8th, 2026.26:06 3A is the home rule petition draft which was referred here on October 8th, 2026.26:14 Motion to receive and place on file made by Councilor Pereira, second by Councilor Lopes.26:20 All those in favor say aye.26:22 Any opposed?26:23 The ayes have it.26:24 Motion to receive and place on file a letter we received from Clerk Farias.26:28 Motion to receive and place on file, uh, Document item three from Clerk Farias, made by Councilor Perara, seconded by Councilor Lopes.26:37 Anyone on the question?26:39 Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.26:41 Aye.26:42 Any opposed?26:43 The ayes have it.26:44 Point of order, Mr. Chairman.26:45 Yes.26:45 Could the clerk please read the letter from Clerk Farias?26:48 Certainly.26:49 Thank you.26:50 Dated October 15th, 2026.26:52 Dear Chairman Bergu, thank you for inviting me to the October 26th meeting of the.26:56 Committee on Ordinances to discuss your proposal of drafting a home rule petition which will modernize the process by which the city's legal notices are advertised to the general public.27:06 While I am unfortunately unable to attend your meeting, I do wish to express my support of this effort.27:13 As you know, I have discussed in recent weeks, I believe that the long-followed process of advertising public hearings in the local newspaper of record is not only outdated but highly inefficient and extremely expensive.27:27 I am absolutely confident that the city can and will design a process by which important hearings for zoning and other matters are publicized in a manner that is both effective and efficient, while also saving the taxpayers of New Bedford tens of thousands of dollars each year in legal costs.27:43 Thank you for your time and consideration of this communication.27:46 Should you or any member wish to discuss this matter further, I am of course happy to do so.27:51 As always, please do not hesitate to contact me directly regarding this or any other issue with which I may be of assistance, respectively.27:59 Dennis W. Farias, City Clerk, Clerk of the City Council.28:02 Thank you.28:04 So just to give the body a little background on this, as Clerk Farias alluded to, obviously we've been in discussion, uh, in regards to this, but also, um, other municipalities within the Commonwealth have obviously run into similar concerns regarding legal notices.28:21 3 in particular have already sent home rule petitions to the State House.28:27 That is Topsfield, Stowe, and Wayland.28:31 That is where I received this language from.28:35 And so I mentioned that because we can essentially change and edit this to tailor what we want.28:43 One of the concerns obviously I had discussed with I was going to call him Solicitor Gieratowski, but it is our legal counsel, Attorney Gieratowski.28:53 Excuse me.28:55 I was blanking.28:55 You don't have to get up.28:56 I was just forgetting your name for a minute.28:59 I just saw him playing Sudoku, so it just made me— just kidding.29:03 I'm teasing.29:04 I'm teasing him.29:06 He told me he wasn't going to bring that today, but it's the city code on there.29:09 I know, but I always tease him on that.29:11 But anyway, One of the conversations I've been having with Attorney Garetowski is on our— by taking the language from these other municipalities, it gives maybe in some cases a little too many options.29:25 And so maybe we want to focus on narrowing it down.29:29 So just to begin the conversation here, to talk about maybe tailoring it specific to New Bedford, as I had spoken about, I know it wasn't in Clerk Farias's letter, but our City Council office alone spends— so far this year has spent $15,000 in legal notices.29:50 We have been unable to get more data from other departments, so obviously I'm hoping from the floor if someone can make a motion requesting that every department that has placed legal notices will relay to this body the actual amount of money they've spent on legal notices, just so we can get an actual amount.30:09 I have been in communication with our state delegation in regards to this, and that was something they were looking into because they were already shocked by that $15,000 amount for just one department, let alone an entire municipality.30:23 Beyond the 3 that I named— Topsfield, Stowe, and Wayland— Needham and Westford have also started a process similar to what we're doing right now.30:33 What I'm hoping will end up happening is a statewide law will just get passed and we won't have to worry about a home rule petition.30:39 But we should begin— excuse me.30:43 Yeah, that's what I'm— yeah, that's what I'm saying.30:45 Needham started theirs in August of 2026 and then Westford in March of 2026.30:50 So I'm just saying there's more to come and hopefully the State House will pass something.30:56 But we know how that goes.30:58 I'll leave it at that.30:58 But with that, I just wanted to give that preamble to help start maybe a conversation here.31:03 If anyone has any questions, maybe for our attorney or the solicitor, I will open the floor at this time.31:10 Who had their hands up first?31:11 Councilor Abreu, and then I'll— Thank you, Mr. Chairman.31:14 Actually, my question is just to you, just for a point of information.31:16 Sure.31:17 You sort of answered my question.31:20 Who on the delegation, or a group of them, I mean, who is looking to take this mantle for us and take it on the Hill for the vote, or we're not there yet?31:27 I know you said you've had some conversations, and, you know, it's— certain things are relegated to certain wards, right, and districts based off of that, but this is a citywide thing.31:36 So I'm just wondering who would be interested.31:38 Maybe we're not there yet.31:40 Yeah, so we're not there yet, but I have already had conversations obviously with Senator Montigny.31:44 He's our only representative in the Senate.31:46 And then Representative Chris Hendricks, who's my state representative, but also the representative in the committee that focuses on home rule petitions.31:54 So obviously, once we get to that, closer to that point, we still have to have conversations with the mayor, because as we're all aware, if you don't have the support of the executive, it's dead on arrival.32:05 So I wanted to just make sure I had conversations with the senator as well as the state rep just to see what their thoughts were on it.32:12 There was no opposition.32:15 It was just more so a thought process of how much money is actually being sent, how much money would be saved for the taxpayers, and what are some maybe unintended consequences.32:24 So obviously that's what I'm hoping we can start doing here in committee, which is why I'm asking from the floor, because as you know, as a chair, I can't make any motions.32:32 Um, so if any— I would entertain from the bot— from the floor a motion to get some of the fact-finding information that we're looking for.32:39 I, I still have the floor.32:42 Sorry.32:43 We'll get— I'll come to you after I come.32:45 Yeah, no, I was just going to say no, and I'll yield quickly for the councilor from Ward 5.32:49 But, um, yeah, no, I— and to your point earlier, Mr. Chairman, I agree.32:52 I think we all can agree we can start the process, but a statewide law would be the most preferable.32:57 Of course.32:58 I mean, this day and age with technology being what it is, and I'm not— we're not saying this to besmirch, you know, any local print newspaper, but it's just the way things are going nowadays.33:06 You know it, I know it, we all know it.33:08 So we'll see what happens on the Hill, but we can get the process started.33:13 So I'm all for it.33:14 And with that, I'll yield.33:15 Thank you.33:17 Councilor Pereira, and then I'll get Councilor Lopez.33:19 Thank you.33:20 So, Mr. Chairman, I guess I will ask Attorney Garetowski to come to the podium, but what I will say is just some thoughts that I do have regarding this after reading the act that was present, the home rule petition that was presented to us, which was basically modeled after Topsfield or one of those communities you named.33:40 What I would say is even— I think the advertising portion, the actual advertising portion, should be a little bit even more simplified.33:50 And so I'd put it to my colleagues that basically— and I think Attorney Gartelsky can help explain it a little bit better and codify the legal terms of it— but I guess I would instruct the legal team to draft a home rule petition that would— and that'll be my motion I'll make in a few minutes— to basically have the primary way of advertising is on a dedicated page on the city's website, posted on the home page with a link, that dedicated spot for all legal ad notices, as well as posting in, in the city libraries.34:26 So folks who don't have internet access can still go and obtain a viewing of what's posted.34:32 As we know, by Mass General Law, it has to be posted outside of the clerk's office, most items.34:38 And so the clerk's office has that big bulletin board.34:41 We would just basically emulate that at every library so the general public can go to a library and see all the legal notices for the week.34:49 And also, if they do have internet access, can access it right on their page.34:53 And if for whatever reason the city's website isn't available, then we would have a backup plan, which could just be the local print newspaper or something like that as a backup.35:01 But I think, you know, in the case of an issue where the city's website isn't working, I think there should be a backup.35:07 But I think, I think there should be one clear source for legal advertisements across the board so people aren't, oh, this department posted on this place, that department department posted over here.35:18 One clear spot, in my opinion, the city's website as well as the libraries.35:24 Those 2 locations will always have legal postings for the entire city.35:28 And then as an emergency backup, bylaw has to be at the clerk's office anyways.35:33 So it'll be every library, the city clerk's office, and the city's website, a dedicated page, all of which are essentially free, maybe a few cents to print the paper.35:45 For the postings.35:45 But essentially, while reducing the cost of legal advertising and as an emergency backup, there should be something in case the city's website is not working.35:54 It can advertise in a paper of record.35:58 I— if Attorney Gierotowski could come to the podium, please, Mr. Chairman.36:02 And that'd be a great incentive not to close our libraries, right?36:08 So, David, based upon my little speech here.36:13 Are you— would you feel that's something that you could draft, and would it kind of make sense to accomplish?36:19 I wasn't listening.36:23 So yeah, I think that the way it's written, I mean, it's clear that, that, you know, the sponsor of this is concerned that, as I think all of us have at certain times with the length of time it takes to put an ordinance, for example, that passes to a second reading has to be published so that the public is aware that the council is considering those things.36:47 And the rule right now is that it goes in a circulation newspaper.36:53 Now, we all know that newspapers are going away, and I'm not even sure if that gives the public really adequate notice in addition to the cost and the Um, and the time it takes to get it in there.37:04 So this is a good attempt at trying to change that, to come up to the times where we— where we're able to, um, give the public better access, where most people get their news from social media or some internet sources of that type.37:22 The city has a well-maintained website.37:24 It's maintained all the time.37:25 We put all the meetings on there.37:28 So the way this was written is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 different choices, right?37:34 And so the solicitor and I and, and the chairman and you have also spoken with us.37:38 The problem with having that many choices is that it says you can put them on any of these, but what if the city chooses to put it in a print newspaper in January, and then in February we're putting them on the website of a newspaper, and then in, in March we're putting it in an independent digital news source.37:57 In April, we're putting it on the state's, the Commonwealth's legal notice page.38:04 Then in May, where do people go to find it?38:07 They don't know where to look.38:09 So I thought it would be better to have it narrowed down to one particular source that everyone will get used to the fact that that's where the notices are going to be, so that they're not having to look all over the place for them.38:22 So your suggestion is that we, we designate the city's website where they make a special page where I think MIS could probably handle that, making a page where the ordinances and legal notices go.38:40 And then if for some reason that becomes a problem, you know, we— I know several years ago we had a ransomware attack, if for some reason something goes wrong with the website, doesn't shut down our ability to post these things, we could then have a backup place where we could put them if that is the case.39:00 I think that's a better way because it gives the public a better situation where they know it's going to be here, and if not there, then here.39:09 And other than that, we don't have to go searching around for these notices.39:12 So I think we can do that.39:14 We can draft that.39:15 I'll work with the solicitor's office.39:17 I'll get it together and go through it with Attorney Jakes because he did have some concerns looking at this and the way it's structured.39:23 Sure.39:24 I think minor things, but I think it's a good idea.39:27 And I think you've got some good— a good way to narrow it so we know what we're doing.39:31 But I also think that the chairman's suggestion that we get some more information because the legislature, when they're passing these things, they're going to be concerned that we're trying— you know, they want transparency is the buzzword in government, transparency.39:47 They always want transparency for everybody else, maybe not so much for themselves.39:50 But without getting too much into that, they're going to be concerned that they're making— this may make it less available to the public.40:00 So we want to explain and have the all the reasons why we think this is a good idea to give to Senator Montigny or Representative Hendricks when they take this to the state.40:10 So I think we can do this.40:12 Great.40:12 And then, David, my, my last question is, this would cover any legal notice the city would issue, any department?40:19 Um, the way it's written, um, it does see publish a legal notice or ordinance that's required under the law to be published, because I think if we're going to through this exercise and, and, and refer it up obviously for mayoral approval and then eventually to the State House, and the State House has it and then hopefully eventually approves it.40:40 We're going to go through this long process.40:41 I would want to make sure we're saving every penny.40:44 And so that would be from every legal notice, anything that we would normally have to advertise in the news, in this, in this paper of record.40:51 Okay.40:52 I would want this to cover.40:53 So I will make those motions, ask if my colleagues support them so that the attorneys have clear understanding of what we're looking for when we receive it back.41:02 But I just wanted to clarify that question before I asked it.41:06 Okay, yeah, I think, I think we can include in there that not just ordinances but other legal notifications as well.41:13 Fantastic.41:13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.41:14 I'll yield, and then when appropriate, I'd like to make a motion.41:17 Chair recognizes Councillor Lopes on his first.41:19 Thank you, Chairman.41:21 So in addition to what you had mentioned about the expenditures and what the colleague from Ward 6 is saying, I'd like to know if any of the department heads are using any alternative sources to already published, you know, RFPs.41:33 I know we use BidNet for the purchasing office, so it'd be nice to know if there was any other alternative sources that the different departments are using, not just the expenditures, but to also get a more robust listing of all of the places that we're putting public notices out.41:48 So thank you.41:51 Anyone else on there first?41:55 All right, Chair recognizes Councilor Abramson.41:57 I was just going to ask, Mr. Chairman, I think just for the sake of our discussion, I know we had talked about this a while in this body.42:02 There were some motions, it didn't really go anywhere, but, um, what about again an official New Bedford City Council Facebook page?42:09 We've talked about it.42:10 The question was always who is going to work it, right?42:14 Someone on our team, our staff, there's 4 in the office, the clerk.42:18 Can't be one of us, obviously.42:20 That's obviously a question too, because folks go on Facebook and the Boston City Council, for example, they have a Facebook page.42:26 I'm sure many in this room follow it.42:29 It's all very cut and dry, black and white.42:31 Hearing today, here's the dockets, or in our case it would be the motions or resolutions or ordinances.42:37 Here they are, here it is, come on down to the chamber.42:41 I don't know.42:43 That could be part of the conversation as well.42:45 It's no political slant, like vote for this one, this one has a fundraiser tonight.42:50 It's nothing like that.42:51 It's all just the facts.42:53 So I think that could be something, but of course, the devil's in the detail, right?42:57 Who is going to work that page and be on top of the inbox and be on top of comments and all that and all.43:04 But I don't know, I think that's part of the discussion as well, having a look at a Facebook page.43:10 Thank you.43:12 Anyone else on there first?43:15 Anyone on there second?43:18 Seeing none, I would appreciate a motion from the floor regarding those.43:22 Make them— okay, I make a motion that every city department report to this committee committee all expenditures related to legal advertising costs in the paper in, in any location, as well as all software utilized for this purpose.43:42 Motion made by Councilor Abreu— I mean, excuse me, Councilor Pereira.43:45 I apologize.43:47 Councilor Pereira, seconded by— okay.43:56 Sorry, Councilor, can you say it into the microphone?44:02 Say into the microphone.44:04 My friendly amendment would be that we look at the current fiscal year as well as the previous fiscal year.44:09 That way we have a better understanding of what is spent.44:12 Do you have that?44:13 Yes.44:14 Wonderful.44:14 Made by Councilor Perez, seconded by Councilor Lopes.44:18 Anyone on the question?44:20 Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.44:22 Aye.44:23 Any opposed?44:23 The ayes have it.44:25 Mr. Chairman, I make another motion.44:27 Of course.44:27 I would move that this committee instruct the legislative counsel, Attorney Garatowski, to coordinate with the city solicitor office in drafting for our review a home rule petition that includes legal advertisings to be posted on the city's website and posted in every library and the clerk's office and include a backup plan of the paper of record.44:57 I would further like to include that— oh, I forgot what I wanted to also include.45:01 David, what else were we talking about?45:06 No, no, no, that was it.45:09 I think that was it.45:10 Oh, I remember now.45:11 Excuse me.45:11 And that it include every legal advertising the whole entire city does, not just this body.45:20 Yeah, that's okay.45:21 That, that would be included in that act.45:23 I'm just making sure that— I don't think it says just City Council in it, but sure, just to specify.45:28 That's what it says, right?45:29 Required legal notices.45:33 Exactly.45:34 To put every single thing listed.45:36 Exactly.45:36 No ambiguity.45:38 Well, wouldn't it make more sense— okay, we'll talk about that after.45:40 Okay, fine.45:41 Make a motion.45:41 Motion made by Councilor Pereira, seconded by Councilor Lopes.45:45 Anyone on the question?45:47 Seeing none, uh, all those in favor say aye.45:50 Aye.45:51 Any opposed?45:52 The ayes have it.45:53 Make a motion to table the item.45:56 Motion to table made by Councilor Pereira, seconded by Councilor Lopes.46:00 All those in favor say aye.46:01 Aye.46:02 Any opposed?46:02 The ayes have it.46:04 Without objection, items 4 and 5A are related.46:07 I'll ask the clerk to read them both into the record.46:09 Item number 4 is communication.46:10 Councilmember Virgo submitting a letter from Police Chief Jason Thode containing recommendations for framework to establish an ordinance governing automated license plate readers, ALPR, and mass location technologies, balancing city council oversight with public safety efficiency and the operation effectiveness of covered technology.46:29 Referred here on September 24th, 2026.46:33 5 is a written motion, Councilor Burgo, requesting a copy of the opinion and order issued by the United States District Court for the Northern District Court of Oklahoma in the United States, America versus Melissa Susan Kyle, concerning the warrantless retrieval of the use of historical automated license plate reader, ALPR, data be provided to the Committee on Ordinances for for its information and consideration in connection with any pending or future legislation concerning ALPR technology and municipal data privacy, referred here on October 8th, 2026.47:06 5A is the opinion and order of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma in the United States of America versus Melissa Susan Kyle, referred here on October 8th, 2026.47:19 4, 5, and 5A are now before you.47:22 Motion received and placed on file, made by Councilor Perara, seconded by Councilor Lopes.47:27 Uh, all those in favor say aye.47:29 Aye.47:30 Any opposed?47:31 The ayes have it.47:32 So colleagues, just to give update in full transparency for everyone here, I received communication from Police Chief Thody, who is currently attending a conference for police chiefs.47:47 He provided us with a number of communications which you should have all received from the office, which at this time I'll ask for a motion to receive and place on file from Councilor Lopes, seconded by Councilor Abreu.47:59 Those are the communications— I don't know what we would title those— related to item number 4.48:10 All those in favor say aye.48:11 Any opposed?48:12 The ayes have it.48:13 So those items for the general public is a memorandum of understanding from Governor Dan McKee in Rhode Island as related to ALPR technology, as well as an ordinance that was passed by Woonsocket City Council, as well as the email notification, I believe from Deputy Chief Belong, to Flock notifying them that they will not be renewing the contract with FLOC.48:40 So FLOC will be ending on November 12th as agreed upon by Chief Thody.48:46 So that is much appreciated.48:50 Chief Thody, in his communication to me, had requested that this item be tabled until he can return because at the conference that he is at right now, they are discussing ALPR technology, and he believes that there'll be greater context that he can bring back.49:08 So obviously I informed him that it would be up to the body to decide.49:14 I do want to acknowledge that Deputy Chief Belong is here, but I did explain to Chief Doty that I agree with him that it is up to the body, but I would agree with him that we can wait until he gets back from the conference.49:26 But I wanted to supply you all with the information that he gave us.49:31 And I will leave that up to all of you to determine what you would like to do at this time.49:36 Chair recognizes Councilor Abreu.49:37 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.49:38 I have no problem adhering to the discretion of yourself and the chief, with the caveat that this will be on our November agenda.49:44 Yes, I have already planned November 18th agenda, and as I promised to this body when we passed the ordinance, obviously, that this— at the last council meeting, this will appear on every single ordinance committee agenda, which our next scheduled meeting is on November 18th, and it is already on that agenda.50:03 Thank you, Mr.50:04 Chair.50:04 And Chief Doty is aware of that, so it's already— it will already be on that agenda as well, and every agenda, but well, until I'm no longer the chairman.50:16 Anyone else on there first?50:19 I make a motion to table the items.50:21 Motion to table made by Councilor Pereira, seconded by Councilor Pemberton.50:25 All those in favor say aye.50:26 Aye.50:27 Any opposed?50:28 The ayes have it.50:29 Make a motion to adjourn.50:31 Motion to adjourn made by— who is that?50:34 I'm sorry.50:34 Councilor Parra, seconded by Councilor Roy.50:38 Anyone on the question of adjournment?50:40 Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.50:43 Any opposed?50:44 The ayes have it.50:45 We are adjourned at 7:50 PM.
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